Wrong + Wrong = Right?
Is it ever ok to do wrong to do right?
If something is wrong and the only way to fix it is to do wrong, do you do it?
When Law restricts fixing right, do you break it?
Jesus told the pharasees that if a man were drowning on the sabboth then he should not be let to drown. The law was against doing any work on the sabboth, and that included the effort involved in helping someone out of water too deep.
So the question now is, is this verse saying that if it is wrong then the law should be changed to make it right and that way you are not breaking the law (and if the law is not changed then the man must drown), or is it saying that the law should be broken to save the man to whom the sabboth was made for?
And can this example be used with the pagan/secular laws of our society today that are considered wrong?
If something is wrong and the only way to fix it is to do wrong, do you do it?
When Law restricts fixing right, do you break it?
Jesus told the pharasees that if a man were drowning on the sabboth then he should not be let to drown. The law was against doing any work on the sabboth, and that included the effort involved in helping someone out of water too deep.
So the question now is, is this verse saying that if it is wrong then the law should be changed to make it right and that way you are not breaking the law (and if the law is not changed then the man must drown), or is it saying that the law should be broken to save the man to whom the sabboth was made for?
And can this example be used with the pagan/secular laws of our society today that are considered wrong?
posted by Rayd at 9:13 pm
16 Comments:
Hey Rayd,
My name is Massey and I'm a Muslim woman living in Canada. I came across the "Muhammad and Me" blog and read one of the comments you posted there:
But Islam has it's faults too, for instance: belief in a loving and forgiving God yet holding grudges and hating people enough to spend a life preparing to purge the world of any of those who do not convert. Do not judge lest you be judged yourself
Considering the state of the media and its attitude towards Islam and what seems to me to be an incessant need to degrade and falsify everything about Muslims in order to make us look like blood thirsty savages, I'm not surprised at your comment. I would like, however, to say the following:
No where in the Koran does it say to 'hate and hold grudges'. In fact, Islam teaches us to be kind and treat our enemies with kindness (you should do some research through reliable sources on this subject)
Also, this idea of muslims 'purging the world of all who wont convert'? Extremists exist everywhere, and in every religion, and Islam is no exception to that. Just like it is wrong to say that all Priests are child molesters, it is as wrong to claim that all Muslims are violent, ruthless and intolerant. The Koran states:
"Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: For thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance. (The Noble Quran, 16:125)"
I hope that you will take the time to gain a better understanding of Islam and it's teachings, and hopefully be a catalyst in the destruction of ignorance, for it seems to me that it is the main trait shared within humanity.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Massey, that's an interesting philosophy the leaders of your religion obviously do not share.
The only people I've seen promoting your line are the rank-and-file, grass-roots folks at the bottom of the pyramid. Islam is very accurate in that it expresses the truth there is only ONE GOD, not three, like most of Christendom. It is unfortunate most of the mullahs do not agree with you.
Back on topic, Rayd: That all depends on the changes to the law some want to make to advance their agenda of "right". Here in the USA, we're engaged in a political contest between those who want respect for our borders, language and culture, and those who claim to be Christians, who insist we give everything away to foreigners living here illegally, who respect none of those things.
The center of the controvercy is a willful misinterpretation of compassion to advance a socialist agenda.
God made all men equal: We come into this world with nothing, and we will carry nothing out! When religion gets into politics under the banner of "Christian" compassion to force everyone to be equally poor, unintended and disasterous consequences abound.
i've often wondered this too, for example, smuggling bibles into muslim nations where christian literature is illegal? and what if i just plain disagree with the law?
Massey, i am sorry. I made a gerealised statement that does not stand true for many muslims. You're right, there will always be radiacals. The only thing is, as -ted (galt) said, many of the muslim leaders live by agressive ways.
There is not much point in arguing, we both serve the same God, regardless of what we call Him. In the end it is God who decides who will and who willnot enter the kingdom of heaven.
while we both believe we follow yahweh God I think it is incorrect to say we both follow the same God. We believe in the trinity but muslim do not. Our scriptures often contradict so unless both are right (in which case both as individuals are wrong) then only one is right and the other is wrong.
It is true that we believe in 3-in-1, 1-in-3. All i'm saying is, Who are we to decide who gets into heaven or not?
I beleive firmly that Jesus is the only way, truth and life, and that no-one can get to heaven but by Him. And because of it will tell others about Him, but i will not condemn someone because they don't believe the same as me.
Andrew Brown:
my personal opinion and one that is shared by many Muslims (and yes, even those crazy mullahs) is that Jews, Christians and Muslims are what we (in Islam) call 'The people of the book'. In the Holy Koran there are multitudes of references to Adam and Eve, Abraham, Moses, the Virgin Mary and Jesus and finally Mohammad (May God's peace be upon all of them) and God says in the Koran that just like He sent forward Jesus and Moses and all his other messengers to guide humanity into the right path, he sent Mohammad. We are all from the same God, and to the same God we will return. This I believe firmly.
and Rayd... thanks for your comment :) what I'd like to point out to both you and galt however is this: you have both claimed that most of the world's Islamic leaders do not share the view expressed in the Koran in regards to peaceful discussion of religion, which brings me to my question: who exactly do you consider to be an Islamic leader? Osama Bin Laden? Saddam Hussein? These individuals and all other who fall under their rank are considered by all Islamic nations to be the tyrants and corruptors of humanity; individuals who use religion as a way of hiding and justifying their cruelty and crimes and this is an opinion that is widely shared among Muslims. Real Islamic leaders are the likes of Malcolm X, Sheikh Abdullah bin Bayyah and the present day President of Iran, who practice efficient and masterful political tactics all within the borders of peace and Islam.
President of Iran?? Oh, right. You mean the one who calls for the destruction of Israel and all Jews. Yeah, you're telling the truth now. The 'infidels' rest their case, Mohamedian swine!
"Mohamedian swine?"
I rest my case :)
Getting back on topic by touching on something Andrew Brown noted:
It's not proper to break the law, even if one uses God or the Bible as an excuse to do so. God's Word says "Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be saved". If someone in an Islamic state wants the truth, they will exert the effort necessary to get it and therefore, probably end up leaving.
When I'm witnessing, I don't stay where I am not wanted, once it has been made known the Truth is not welcomed.
To another matter, Rayd, you might wish to consider altering the settings on your blog to not allow anonymous comments, and add Word Varification. Such actions tend to discourage those who like to hurl firey darts like "Mohammadan swine" around.
And if the reason to defy the law is such that both parties involved want the law broken, yet the government or controlling power is enforcing it?
(and by enforcing it either serving themselves or doing what they think is best but may not necessarily be so)
I'm still unclear as to what you mean Rayd.
If you mean the law is a gross violation of the Word of God (genocide, oppression of a group of the citizenry for some ethnic/racial/gender reason that has nothing to do with protecting the country from an enemy, or protecting the people from one another) then your concern is legitimate.
Government is at best a necessary evil, anyway. And more often than not gets in the way of justice, rather than administering it. Hell, my own is running up massive debts trying to alternately play world policeman/wet-nurse. Your mileage may vary.
"government or controlling power"
it doesn't have to be the government.
My point is simply, if you think something is wrong and the person who has the power to decide what is right and wrong thinks it is right, then do you abide by them or do you defy them?
I know the answer will be "depends on the context" but should it always depend on the context?
When you see something is wrong, should you not do waht you think is best to right it? If you fail then you learn from your mistakes, if you succeed then you have you done what was needed top be done. Right?
Well, the only example from Scripture I have to go on is Acts 3-6, noting particularly 5:29 "Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We aught to obey God rather than men." They were trying to move the Word, and the religio-political establishment was using everything at its disposal to suppress the truth. The believers didn't oppose them with violence, even when it was threatened and used against them, they just blew it off and moved anyway.
I think the modern term is "civil disobedience."
It's not a matter of what we "feel" is right or wrong: Right and wrong are defined for us in the Word. If the system wants to contradict or oppose the Word, we keep living and sharing it...system be damned!
Post a Comment
<< Home