Update
ive been looking at some verses in Corinthians lately
1Corinthians 5:12
"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those on the outside. 'Expel the wicked man from among you.'"
1 Corinthians 6
"If any of you has a dispute with another [of the church], dare he take it before the ungodly for judgement instead of before the saints? Do you not know the the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church! I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? But instead, one brother goes to the law against another - and this infront of unbelievers!"
i'll stop here for the moment because i want to share my thoguhts on these verses about judging. The first verse tells us that we should not judge those on the outside, and we know this. but what i was unaware of was that it says we should judge those on the inside, and expel them. Does this mean that we should judge each other? I believe that if we start judging each other then it will be easy to judge those on the outside. I could understand this verse if the word 'expel' was not in it, then i would see the verse as constructive critisism toward each other and accountability. But i find it hard to understand how we should expel those that do wrong, or is it that we should only expel those that refuse to repent, that refuse to accept the responsibility for their wrongdoings?
The second of the judging verses is more about mediation. And personally i think it's a great idea, but then sometimes things cannot be solved just by the church, for example; one of my sister's friends took her camera and got it stolen. That's not so bad, but the thing was he took it without permission when he knew she would have said no. After telling her that it had been stolen he told her that he needed the receipt to take to the police to prove it was his camera and not the theifs. My sister refused because obviously if he had the camera and the receipt then the camera would be his and she would never get it back. So my sister told him that he was to pay for it or get it back for her. He failed to do anything, so she talked to their leader and he couldnt get through to the guy that he had to give the camera back or pay for it, so the only option left was to go to the police. But i think the general idea of it is that our morals are different to a lot of judges, and not all judges are free of corruption. It is better for a christian that knows even the basic laws the bible teaches to mediate a situation that could potentially get out of hand.
moving on to the last verse from Corinthians...
1 Corinthians 14:4
"He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who speaks prophesies edifies the church. I would like every one of you to speak in tongues but i would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than the one that speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified."
This verse spoke to me a different way. I found myself wondering if everyone at Opawa could speak in tongues. It is not so much a thing that baptists are good at, using the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Should we be teaching Christians young and old to learn how to speak tongues?
On a lighter note; If you haven't heard of Bonnie Tyler then i suggest strongly taht you listen to her song Total Eclipse of the Heart also known as Bright Eyes and Turn Around. It's a truly great song. I'm sure it brings back some memories for some of the oldies.
1Corinthians 5:12
"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those on the outside. 'Expel the wicked man from among you.'"
1 Corinthians 6
"If any of you has a dispute with another [of the church], dare he take it before the ungodly for judgement instead of before the saints? Do you not know the the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church! I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? But instead, one brother goes to the law against another - and this infront of unbelievers!"
i'll stop here for the moment because i want to share my thoguhts on these verses about judging. The first verse tells us that we should not judge those on the outside, and we know this. but what i was unaware of was that it says we should judge those on the inside, and expel them. Does this mean that we should judge each other? I believe that if we start judging each other then it will be easy to judge those on the outside. I could understand this verse if the word 'expel' was not in it, then i would see the verse as constructive critisism toward each other and accountability. But i find it hard to understand how we should expel those that do wrong, or is it that we should only expel those that refuse to repent, that refuse to accept the responsibility for their wrongdoings?
The second of the judging verses is more about mediation. And personally i think it's a great idea, but then sometimes things cannot be solved just by the church, for example; one of my sister's friends took her camera and got it stolen. That's not so bad, but the thing was he took it without permission when he knew she would have said no. After telling her that it had been stolen he told her that he needed the receipt to take to the police to prove it was his camera and not the theifs. My sister refused because obviously if he had the camera and the receipt then the camera would be his and she would never get it back. So my sister told him that he was to pay for it or get it back for her. He failed to do anything, so she talked to their leader and he couldnt get through to the guy that he had to give the camera back or pay for it, so the only option left was to go to the police. But i think the general idea of it is that our morals are different to a lot of judges, and not all judges are free of corruption. It is better for a christian that knows even the basic laws the bible teaches to mediate a situation that could potentially get out of hand.
moving on to the last verse from Corinthians...
1 Corinthians 14:4
"He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who speaks prophesies edifies the church. I would like every one of you to speak in tongues but i would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than the one that speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified."
This verse spoke to me a different way. I found myself wondering if everyone at Opawa could speak in tongues. It is not so much a thing that baptists are good at, using the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Should we be teaching Christians young and old to learn how to speak tongues?
On a lighter note; If you haven't heard of Bonnie Tyler then i suggest strongly taht you listen to her song Total Eclipse of the Heart also known as Bright Eyes and Turn Around. It's a truly great song. I'm sure it brings back some memories for some of the oldies.
posted by Rayd at 5:18 pm
7 Comments:
hey bible nerd!!
//(^.<)\\
Hey Rayd. I can see why you are thinking about the whole speeking in tounges thing, but don't neglect the rest of that verse. I belive that someone speeking in tounges is useless unless there is an interpreter/or God lets the other person understand somehow. My point is we are to edify the church not ourselfs. Some people might think its cool to talk in tounges, but its not about us. I think that this verse focuses more on the importance of others to understand what we are saying so we help others and not ourselfs. What good is speeking in tounges if no one else can understand us?
Well when i speak in tongues i do it in private where no-one else hears and the reason is because i dont do it to edify myself i do it when i feel a need to pray and i feel that praying in tongues is appropriate. So really im not speaking for myself im speaking for other people. I think i could have worded this answer better but you get the general jist of it. Im not very confident in speaking tongues infront of other people and that keeps me from edifying myself as oppose to those on my mind which really works out quite well.
hey there i agree who are we to judge others i mean we are not perfect our selves and we all sin and no matter how big or small we think the sin is all sins are all the same size to jesus
The purpose of speaking in tounges is to speak directly to God in his language, it is a private thing really, because it is normally between you and God.
But I did here a story of when this lady was praying for someone she felt to pray in tounges and the same phrase kept coming out of her mouth. After she finished praying for the girl, the girl said did you know what you were saying. the lady said "no". Then the girl said "you kept saying I love you in Russian, and Russian is my favourite language".
So it does have its purpose, If God is urging you to speak in tounges don't hold back because there is always a purpose for using such a special language.
Also I believe you can't be taught to speak in tounges, it has to be given to you by God/the Holy Spirit. If you don't have the Holy Spirit you can't have tounges.
I agree with the gift of tongues coming from the Holy Spirit. you can only speak tongues if He is within you, but as you are aware, not many Christian who do have the Holy Spirit within them do actually speak tongues. And i believe God teaches people to speak tongues in two different ways. Infact i see it very much like the Peter/Paul differences. Some people learn tongues instantly and for others it many take a while to speak. I believe the same concept can be applied to so many different things. Love for instance grows over time, but there is also what some call Love at first sight. I'm not a scholar and i'm not God so to tell you the truth i know relatively very little in these matters, but for now that is what i believe. Is speaking in tongues to others so that it is interpreted not the same as prophesies? Secondly concerning your earlier comment about speaking tongues being useless, i totally disagree. The verse says "I would like every one of you to speak in tongues.." Therefore confirming that speaking in tongues is infact a good thing and not a vain, selfish act.
The gift of tongues is just that. A gift. It is supplied to the person when he/she is judged (by God) to be ready for it. The gift of toungues is a private thing to share with God and/or someone who needs it, if it is spoken to another person it is the latter persons gift from God to that person using the speaker as a vessel.
The idea of 'expelling' someone due to his wickedness is largely the hangover from pre-Jesus legalism. Paul in his writings shows people how they are to behave and then gives them time to become that by agreeing with the culture at the time.
Remember we are all saved by grace. Now.
I can't remember where it says this but in one chapter (i think its Ephesians) where Paul says that women shouldn't speak in church, then in the next chapter he clearly says that they shouldn't be stopped from it.
Culture at the time deemed that women should not be in a place of dominance over men but Christ showed us that all are equal and Paul picks up on this by by saying that a woman TRAINED in Godly things should speak.
Hope that helps.
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