Question
Can you Bless yourself?
And if you can Bless yourself then is it the equivalent of someone else Blessing you?
And if you can Bless yourself then is it the equivalent of someone else Blessing you?
You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do men light a lamp and put it under a peck measure, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all in the house. Let your light so shine before men that they may see your moral excellence and your praiseworthy, noble, and good deeds and recognize and honor and praise and glorify your Father Who is in heaven. Matt5:14-16
Those who look to him are radiant, their faces are never covered with shame. (Psalm 34.5)
25 Comments:
haha this link will help you work out how blessing were used in the bible, and then from that information, you can work out what a blessing really is, get rid of your idea of blessing and get a fresh idea entirely from the bible, and then you should be able to answer the question.
from my brief look, blessings are used in two ways in the bible. God/Jesus blesses people, or people are spoken about as being blessed. "Blessed is the King" for example. I think when the bible (rarely) talks about people blessing other people, it's not talking about saying "Bless you" to someone, but an act of giving or help that could be interpreted as a blessing. Giving someone a glass of water, for example, is blessing someone. Saying "Bless you" is a simple phrase which has no meaning.
Upon further though, blessings are acts performed for people with the intention if God behind them.
I dissagree with Andrew Brown on this.
I believe that the spoken blessing from one to another has amazing potential to uplift that person being blessed.
A blessing is a beautiful thing.
I blessed both of my girls when they were born, and i won't be told that my blessing to my daughters has no meaning.
Hey, I just pointed out what the bible says, and I won't be told anything about God that doesn't directly come from the bible because if it doesn't come from the bible then MAN HAS MADE IT UP.
Those verses from the Bible talk about what God said to us. Yes. But that doesn't mean that people didn't bless each other. Does the Bible show us how God blesses people so that we can bless others? Or is the Bible saying that blessings are only for God to hand out? I didn't find an answer to either of those questions there. I think it is really how you interpret the Bible. I like to think the first way is right. I know that when someone says to me "Andrew! Bless You!" then i feel a real warmth inside that makes me happy i'm alive. I don't know if that's the same for everyone but i definitely like people giving something to me and blessings are always right up there with the things i can receive. I'm not talking about a sneeze bless you, that has lost it's meaning, but a serious stop what you're doing and truthfully and imperitively say Bless You!
I don't think you get the same out of blessing you give to yourself because to me that's only saying "Hey Andrew, I'm happy i'm alive, and i want God to bless me for it" but when someone else blesses me it's like they're saying "Andrew, I'm happy that you're alive. God Bless you for your life!"
Hey, that's fine, and you've come to a resonable conclusion.
But be wary of adding your own opinion to the scripture, and also be wary of basing your knowledge on your emotion.
"I know that when someone says to me "Andrew! Bless You!" then i feel a real warmth inside that makes me happy i'm alive. I don't know if that's the same for everyone but i definitely like people giving something to me and blessings are always right up there with the things i can receive."
While I'm not trying to take away from anything you feel, your doing something which I was taught was possibly dangerous, and your taking experiences from your experience and applying them to and trying find where they fit in the bible. It's a mis-justification for a lot of thing christians do today. Reading your own experience into the scripture. You say you get real meaning out of it, but blessing is just a word that's in the bible, that like you pointed out, is not even used in that sense at all in there. I'm not saying that it holds no meaning to it, but you really really need to see what the bible says and ONLY rely on the bible. Man (especially in the past century) has a terrible habit of adding 'doctrine' to the bible. A lot of things I were taught was good/bad never came from the bible but I was taught it as doctrine. If the bible doesn't say it, then we can't know for sure.
I'm sure when someone says "Bless you" it means something, but positive words are just some form of blessing, the actual fact of saying 'blessing' means more to you specifically than generally-spirtually. It's the postive words that are the blessing not the specific words. If "blessing" means something special to you then that's great, but the word itself holds no power. That would be idolatry. To make a word (or anything really) holier than any other word (other than the name of God) is something the bible says is wrong.
Just because it isn't in the bible doesn't neccesarily mean it isn't true. We need to understand Jesus' moral point in his life.
Example, AIDS is not in the bible does that mean that we do nothing about it, and the drug P isn't in there either, does the same question apply?
God will take us all on our own journey of discovery with him and he will tell us things that he feels that we should know, if you have come to a conclusion Andrew, bless you, and search for what you know God is telling you.
Of course certain things aren't in the bible (people seem to act like it says don't smoke weed in there though)
The point is, is we can't add to the scripture. We cannot say if something is or is not right if it is not in the scripture. ESPECIALLY when it comes to something spiritual like 'blessings'
There is absolutely NO WAY to determine if something spiritual is ok or not if it is not directly addressed in the scripture. We absolutely CAN NOT say some is or is not correct, especially spiritual things, if we haven't read it happen in the bible.
For someone to say that saying "bless you" holds signifigance spiritually even though that never happens in the bible, has just as much weight as me saying that if I kiss your hand you will get a demon.
It really gets to me how people use their own experience, and then say the bible/christianity backs it up. No wonder so many people believe weird interpretations of the bible. No wonder so many people are also so 'new agey'.
WE SIMPLY CANNOT ADD TO THE SCRIPTURE, no matter how right we think we are. And saying that saying "bless you" holds spirtual signifigance? That is adding to the scripture. Saying that saying "bless you" to someone is a positive thing and should be encouraged, is not adding to scripture, it is saying opinion.
"There is absolutely NO WAY to determine if something spiritual is ok or not if it is not directly addressed in the scripture"
Rubbish.
We can take the principles that are found in the bible and apply them to the new and ever changing situations we find ourselves in.
Andrew Brown, you must be one tired little man. You should work on relaxing.
i am exhausted, if only you knew. i'm not little either :?:
the bible clearly says to stay away from things like magic etc. thats simple. prayer is good. something like "blessings" as far as a positive message goes is a grey area.
take the principles of the bible and apply? sure. you must be thinking i'm saying something else. i don't mean something has to be explicitely addressed by scripture, but, if something isn't addressed at all, then we can't make stuff up.
if you understood what i said you'd realise it doesn't contradict what you say.
"but the word itself holds no power. That would be idolatry. To make a word (or anything really) holier than any other word (other than the name of God) is something the bible says is wrong."
Words hold the power over life and death. Proverbs 18:21
Marajuana isn't specifically spoken about in the bible but it does do damage to your body and a christian's body is of the temple of God. So isn't that desecration?
Andrew, if you kissed my hand in an act of a big betrayal toward me i wouldn't rule out that you may get a demon.
hmmm, i was gonna say another thing but i gotta go to youthgroup now and i've forgotten what it was.
as a christian evil spirits have no power over me. death has been defeated. i cannot get a demon.
and marijuana doesn't physically harm the body. it's less lethal than most stuff people put in their bodies these days, including caffiene and paracetemol.
through study of that passage, and it's context, in my opinion, that passage doesn't mean that words have power over other people. i can't say 'curse you rayd' and achieve anything, but it is bad for me to say it. in the niv it goes The tongue has the power of life and death,
and those who love it will eat its fruit.
as far as i'm concerned, it's more about people who love to talk. it's what the context implies to me.
also 1 Corinthians 10:21 "You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons."
see, I can't get a demon.
another thing i've heard preached many times (christians with demons) which doesn't happen anywhere in the bible. all the people with demons in the bible have not met Jesus yet, and do not have the holy spirit. How could the 'temple of the holy spirit' also hold a Demon?
i'm willing to change my mind if i see biblical evidence.
So, how then do Christians backslide? And when they do are they then prone to demons?
I believe that words have amazing power. If you went to an African country and said "curse you" what would happen?
Jesus put so much energy into the words he spoke that it would be arrogant in the least to say that words don't matter.
In Genesis "God SAID 'Let there be light...'"
In John 1:1 "The word was with God and the word was God".
Sharyn is right.
So, how then do Christians backslide? And when they do are they then prone to demons?
Well, I don't believe Christians can backslide (in the sense that you mean anyway) but to answer your question, how can a person possibly have both the Holy Spirirt and a Demon? Show me 1 example in the bible where someone does. The only people who have Demons don't have the Holy Spirit. How can you add to the bible and say "Well, although it didn't happen in the bible, and in the bible it states that "you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons" but that doesn't mean it can't happen now.. I'm not saying I dom't believe in Demon possesion. It happens in the bible. But in the same temple as the Holy Spirit. Please give the Holy Spirit more credit than that.
I believe that words have amazing power. If you went to an African country and said "curse you" what would happen?
Absolutely nothing at all. Unless I'm praying to God, my words have no greater spirtual meaning. Yes I can negatively influence someone. I could speak words harsh enough to make someone kill themselves, but to actually create a spiritual thing by speaking words? I doubt it. Show me somewhere in the bible where that happens.
Jesus put so much energy into the words he spoke that it would be arrogant in the least to say that words don't matter.
In Genesis "God SAID 'Let there be light...'"
In John 1:1 "The word was with God and the word was God".
And what is the biggest difference between Jesus/God and us? WE ARE NOT GOD. I can spend all day praying for China, and yes it helps, but at the end of the day it's up to God to choose what he wants done spiritually. Jesus had the power of God behind him. What he said GOES. I can't tell this table to move.
Words only have the power of what is behind them. If I am not God, I cannot command something to happen, I can pray for it, and then it's up to God.
I'm not saying words don't matter. I am saying that words don't have a spiritual backing. There is absolutely no bible proof of that. You cannot make spiritual effect by mere words. God can. We can't. We speak words.
You're not giving the Holy Spirit and God enough credit here and giving mere man a lot more credit than he deserves. We are fallen. We have no good in us. The only good thing we have is God. I don't have the strength to do anything in myself, unless God helps me. By saying that I have the ability to tell someone they are cursed is giving that power over to Satan by believing that he can do something like that. God has ALL the power. Who do Demons ultimately serve? God.
Sharyn is right. good on her..
People fall away from Godliness because of their own inherant sinful nature, not because of 'demons'. We cannot not sin, Adam could but since the fall we are all creatures of sin. Isnt this a fundamental Christian principal???
Sharyn- we can and should use biblical principals to mould our current lives. It is dangerous and irrisponsible to use the scriptures to justify our actions. You gotta have it in the right order- scripture then life.
Isnt it a shame when good dabate turns to petty insults.
Warwick- dont you think its even more arrogant to draw comparison to our spoken words and THE WORD OF GOD. Of course Jesus put energy into the words He said- His words had absolute authority and power. Of course our words matter, in the way we relate to each other and share GODS word.
Man was created in the image of God. If man was created in God's image then can that possibly include some image of God's speech? His words have so much, infinite in fact, power so would our words not have power to some degree too? How can you, or anyone, decide for everyone how much power our words can hold?
Based on Calvinism, shouldn't your beliefs be that the people of God, those he has chosen, should be chosen before birth, before they were even conceived, and therefore have the spirit dwelling in them? Well if that's the case then those christians in the Bible who had spirits cast out of them never did become christians.
And i'm pretty certain that they did.
If the Holy Spirit would never allow a demon to enter His temple then could a Demon ever have previously entered it? Because that is still defiling the temple is it not?
Alice, that is not the fundamental christian prinicpal, it is rather one philosophy or theory of theology. Not everyone believes that. I'm not saying i don't, but not everyone does.
I don't see a Scriptural precident for it.
I'm curious to know what christians do believe if they think we aren't inherantly sinful???
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First off Andrew, I really want you to try and forget about what people have told you, and base all of your faith from the bible and what the bible says.
Man was created in the image of God. If man was created in God's image then can that possibly include some image of God's speech? His words have so much, infinite in fact, power so would our words not have power to some degree too? How can you, or anyone, decide for everyone how much power our words can hold?
Yes man was created in the image of God. But we also fell. Sin destroyed man. There is nothing good left in us. The only good we can have, is good that God gives us. I don't get what you're trying to say, that our words can have spiritual power? Ultimately, it's up to God to take my words and give them power. Maybe I can say "bless you" and God will do something about it, but not just because I said words. I even asked my minister about this at church. It really seems like you're clutching at straws trying to prove that words have some kind of spiritual power. The words that come out of my mouth have no power until something gives them power. Only God can choose to do that, and so unless he does put power into them, they are just words. Yes they can have pyschological power, but not spiritual. And God isn't just going to do something unless it's in his will. In saying "Bless you" you are effectively saying "I hope/pray God blesses you". It's no more than a prayer. A prayer that may be answered, but that's up to God.
Based on Calvinism, shouldn't your beliefs be that the people of God, those he has chosen, should be chosen before birth, before they were even conceived, and therefore have the spirit dwelling in them? Well if that's the case then those christians in the Bible who had spirits cast out of them never did become christians.
Sorry, but you don't understand Calvinism if you think that. No-one is born saved. I do believe in pre-destination, but those people who are predestined for God, are still just sinful people that cannot come towards God until God makes the first move.
And i'm pretty certain that they did.
If the Holy Spirit would never allow a demon to enter His temple then could a Demon ever have previously entered it? Because that is still defiling the temple is it not?
You misunderstand the concept of the temple of the Holy Spirit then. It's only a temple of the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit resides in it. When there is no Holy Spirit, it is not a temple of the Holy Spirit.
I honestly do not understand how you can believe that someone who has the Holy Spirit, can also habour a demon? I honestly don't know what gives you the idea that this is possible, because it happens no-where in the bible. You can't say that 'you've seen it' because you are in no position to say that someone has a demon or not, or wether that person does or does not truely have the Holy Spirit. It is clear in the bible that we cannot judge those things. To me that is blasphemy, to say that the Holy Spirit is not strong enough to prevent demons. Does the bible not say that Jesus has defeated death? Satan holds NOTHING to God.
You know that God cannot be around sin/evil, so how could the Holy Spirit inhabit the same temple as a demon? I really hope you don't just give me some answer from your head, or from something you have heard, but read the bible and see what that has to say.
This next statement is pointed just as much at me as it is at you Andrew, but it seems like you have a lot of pride here, and you're just sticking to what you 'believe' despite what the bible has to say about it. You're disputing existing scripture and basing your argument on things that have happened out of scripture. You don't have to believe me, read the bible and see what that has to say about. I spent a lot of years in a church having people tell me things, and it's unusual that it's only now that instead of caring what other people think, I care what the bible has to say about things. The bible is the only concrete thing God has given us, it's the ultimate reference, and to base your beliefs off 'experience' that differs from the bible is very dangerous indeed.
Alice, I haven't done a course on theology or anything so i'm not the expert on people's beliefs. I know that my own beliefs are not the same as anybody elses because they are my own personal ones. But i think that some people believe we are not born creatures of sin but Satan tempts us to becoming sinful whereas others believe that we were born of si, because of Adam's sin (the origianl sin) and therefore cannot commit any good deeds without the direct intervention of God. Those are the two extremes and most people's beliefs lie between them.
Andrew,
Yes man was created in the image of God. But we also fell. Sin destroyed man. There is nothing good left in us.
When we fell we still had parts of us that we had when we weren't fallen. Otherwise how could we be existing? Could not some of that be spiritual too? After all the spiritual world is just as big if not bigger than the physical. Just look at third world countries, they do not lack so much spiritual things as first world countries do, it's only in the last thousand years or so that we've moved away from it and lacked the faith to prove ourselves wrong. When we fell, we lost our bond with God, Jesus came and gave it back, that's what the Spirit does. We got back what we lost.
You're right it is God who gives the blessing, ultimately. That doesn't mean He hasn't given us the power to give that blessing too, through the use of His power.
It's no more than a prayer. A prayer that may be answered, but that's up to God.
I believe every prayer is answered. We don't always know exactly what we are asking for or how to ask or explain to God what it is we need of Him, but it is the Holy Spirit who takes what we say and tells it to God in a way acceptable to Him.
I honestly do not understand how you can believe that someone who has the Holy Spirit, can also habour a demon?
Well can a christian get sick? We only get a glimpse of our happy ever after eternity, we don't automatically become immortal, unaffected by influences outside of us when we become a christian. That's physical, spiritual, mental and emotional triggering influences. Can you get hurt by what someone says to you? And if you can then should you, as a christian be able to? Because my impression was that having the Holy Spirit in you protected you from evil. Well evil isn't just spiritual. And all the realms in which we exist are interlinked. Physical, emotional, mental, spiritual, et al. You can't say the spirit only protects you from one and leaves you vulernable to the others.
You know that God cannot be around sin/evil, so how could the Holy Spirit inhabit the same temple as a demon?
Was God around Lucifer when He was betrayed? Was Jesus seated by Judas during the last supper? How can the kiss of betrayal be a kiss when the enemy cannot draw close enough to kiss Him?
Well can a christian get sick? We only get a glimpse of our happy ever after eternity, we don't automatically become immortal, unaffected by influences outside of us when we become a christian. That's physical, spiritual, mental and emotional triggering influences. Can you get hurt by what someone says to you? And if you can then should you, as a christian be able to? Because my impression was that having the Holy Spirit in you protected you from evil. Well evil isn't just spiritual. And all the realms in which we exist are interlinked. Physical, emotional, mental, spiritual, et al. You can't say the spirit only protects you from one and leaves you vulernable to the others.
I guess I just plain disagree with you there. As far as our bodies go, there is now death on earth, as we can see by cancer and sickness, but spiritually you're either dead or alive, or have the Holy Spirit or not.
Maybe we just have a fundamental difference of belief in in the idea that a Christian can have a demon. As far as I'm concerned, logic + the bible tells me it can't.
Could not some of that be spiritual too? After all the spiritual world is just as big if not bigger than the physical.
The situation is, is that it's black or white. You either have God or you don't. You don't have just some God, ever. If man does not have the Holy Spirit (as in, hasn't been saved) then he is spiritually dead. If he then does get the Holy Spirit, he is spiritually alive. Neither of these things have to do with the power of what comes out of someones mouth. Ultimately, the power of what someone says has more to do with the listener than the speaker. If you told me to go get f** it wouldn't do anything to me, because insults don't really do much to me, but if you said that to someone more senstive, then you may hurt them. I'm not saying words don't have power, psychologically they can have immense power, but spiritually? Maybe if you're preaching the word, but just by saying something nice and spiritual sounding?
I believe every prayer is answered.
Ok, I guess I meant, it's up to God to answer, but he won't always do what we want. I can't pray for your death, and if I did, how would the Spirit interperet that? I believe God understands us perfectly, but he doesn't have to do what we ask just because we ask it.
You're right it is God who gives the blessing, ultimately. That doesn't mean He hasn't given us the power to give that blessing too, through the use of His power.
Well, as far as I'm concerned, we don't have any power, apart from our power (100% through grace) to ask God to do something and then have him do it. Every single atom in this universe moves only because he allows it to. If we try to do something that is against his will, well, how can we?
That's a good conclusion. I don't think i'm going to argue with you here because i can see that our beliefs do differ. You believe in good OR evil, right OR wrong, black OR white, Physical OR Spiritual, prayer for good; whereas i believe there are inbetweens aswell as extremes, that everything is interlinked, and that a bad prayer (like the one mentioned) can be a curse.
I guess in a way it's the core beliefs that make up the rest of our beliefs. (Not including the elementry beliefs that we both believe in: the Bible.)
Rayd, you have a great grasp of how things are going on this thread.
The basic Biblical meaning of the word "blessed" is happy, not the much ballyhooed Papist concept of some assigned "Holy" power to a word or act. It is the rightly-devided Word on believing lips, or in serving hands, that bestows more blessing than anything.
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